A Very Stinky Slip and Slide

This week everyone's got somewhere else to be, but before they all rush off, there's a housing special spectacular to record, where the committee put aside the usual trade union affairs to talk about the Renters Rights Act, with very special guest Dan G who's doing bits with the London Renters Union.

Further Reading:

• Dubai: Playground of the Rich (I'm not linking it here but it's all on Dailymotion, I'm sure you'll find it)
• The Renters Rights Act: https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/renters_rights_act_changes_for_private_renters
• Blackpool — Acorn Members in Revoe: https://acornuk.good.do/saverevoerefurbnotrebuild/refurbnotrebuild/
• National Housing Demo: www.nationalhousingdemo.org

The Motion:

"This podcast believe that homeowners should be banned from holding trade union officer positions."

Join our union UTAW.tech. Buy our merch UTAW.shop.

Transcript

Content Warning: Mouth Noises

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Jimmy, I also did my makeup when I joined the zoo the Zoom meeting. Edwin's getting to watch us both. Are you doing your makeup on your back of your hand?

SPEAKER_07 0:07

You know I am, girl. No, I forgot all my brushes. Hold on. So do I.

SPEAKER_10 0:12

I'm glad that you both prepare for this podcast because you know that um you know that I'm gonna use the video in future.

SPEAKER_06 0:18

Are you? No, I d I did it. I did it to go to the Apple shop.

SPEAKER_10 0:27

The TikTok market and we'll need to start editing these videos together.

SPEAKER_07 0:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 0:31

I did not consent to that.

SPEAKER_10 0:33

Well, too late. You consented when you joined the call.

SPEAKER_06 0:37

When that happens, can we do lip syncing?

SPEAKER_08 0:39

Yeah. I'm just gonna do mouth noises.

SPEAKER_10 0:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 0:55

Do you want to hear I can I can do it a bit wet good, but not as well as him. He goes, Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:01

It's it's doing like uh zoom stuff, so I didn't hear it, but the the visuals were great. Do you want to hear it?

SPEAKER_06 1:08

I don't know. You get you get it from the visuals, you know.

SPEAKER_10 1:10

Do you want to hear my one? I've got an impression of you know, like a glass catch-up bottle.

SPEAKER_06 1:14

Oh yeah, go on.

SPEAKER_10 1:15

You know, if you like need to get out uh you've got a glass catch-up bottle and you can't get anything out of it, so you sort of have to like roll it like that to get stuff out of it. Okay, ready?

SPEAKER_08 1:28

That's really good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:31

I've been working on that for a long time. I've been working on that since Goodfellas, because that's that's that's um there's the bit in that film where Robert De Niro does that. It's my favourite moment in all of film. Um who's got background TV?

SPEAKER_07 1:53

What? I'm not watching someone reviewing Love is Blind. You're not even watching Love Is Blind. No, I'm just watching someone reviewing watching Love is Blind.

SPEAKER_10 2:02

Do you not watch Love Is Blind and you just watch someone reviewing Love is Blind? Is that your way of consuming Love Is Blind?

SPEAKER_07 2:08

Yeah, because I mainly watch YouTube.

SPEAKER_10 2:10

Interesting. So I was speaking to a friend of mine the other day who religiously watches RuPaul's Drag Race, but they've never they never actually watch episodes of RuPaul's Drag Race, they just watch um like the podcasts uh about RuPaul's Drag Race. So they watch they consume it from reactions, they watch they watch Pit Stop and then they then they've got opinions about the episode.

SPEAKER_06 2:32

They watch Pit Stop. Oh hey!

SPEAKER_08 2:34

Hello Alright, how are you all? Good. Dan, your sound is awful. Why are you so echoey? Is it uh is Dan doing his Dan, are you doing a shit? Is this better? Or worse?

SPEAKER_07 2:57

It's kind of the same. Um You need time to take a shit. We'll give you it to you. You don't need to do this.

SPEAKER_10 3:04

It does sound like you're taking a shit.

SPEAKER_06 3:06

I'm going to feed the cat. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 3:08

I can move rooms. It is quite echoe in here, isn't it? I'll go in the booth. Okay, alright. The booth. I'll be back. I'll be back. I just it's so hot in the booth, but I'll just sweat it out. It'll be fine.

SPEAKER_10 3:20

The fact that you have the booth to go to is we don't have the booth.

SPEAKER_05 3:27

I'm not at home. It's not like I have a big please go to the booth.

SPEAKER_10 3:31

If you have the booth, go to it.

Dubai: Playground of the Rich

SPEAKER_05 3:32

Okay, alright, booth has happened.

SPEAKER_10 3:34

I was gonna talk about Dubai Playground Playgrounds from the Rich. That was my uh that was my pre pre pre-game topic, but I don't know if it was relevant anymore. It was just what I wanted to talk about.

SPEAKER_06 3:43

What's Dubai Playground to the rich? Oh mate.

SPEAKER_10 3:48

What's what's Dubai Playgrounds of the Rich? Um so it felt relevant to the subject matters today that we've we will we will introduce shortly. Um it's it's a reality show that was on BBC three um about the playground of the rich Dubai. Um and it follows you know the big players in Dubai. So it follows um yeah, like British uh expat um travel uh not travel agents, um uh estate agents um trying to sell you know luxury apartments in Dubai.

SPEAKER_07 4:24

But they're all selling sunset Dubai.

SPEAKER_10 4:27

Yeah, but they're all they're all like you know, they they're making like ridiculous amounts of money and they've all got their Rolexes on and they're like incredibly expensive suits. But then when you actually like see them, they're they're they literally work in a call centre and that they have like they have the worst employment rights. Um and then and then there's like some other expat um who's like um yeah, I'm I I will I'm I'm not I'm not commenting on the shake I want I I like my lifestyle and I I refuse to say anything and then she's got his book on on our table. Um it's an incredible pro do you want to watch the intro to it? Yeah, we never normally have a clip around.

SPEAKER_07 5:19

Um they've attacked two of our candidates. So in this podcast, I have to be very good. Otherwise they'll get me.

SPEAKER_10 5:29

Wait, so hold you you the you've you've got uh uh a spy.

SPEAKER_07 5:35

Yeah, but he's not like a very good spy. He's literally like I work for Labour on his Instagram, and also I've just decided to follow you.

SPEAKER_10 5:44

This is Dubai Playboy.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

Where else in the world can you live like this? It's magic. If you're having a bad day in Dubai, you're really not having a bad day.

SPEAKER_04 5:58

Dubai, a man-made oasis in the Arabian desert, home to 52,000 millionaires. How many handbikes do you have?

SPEAKER_08 6:10

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 6:11

Are any of them fixed? Fake two and a half million expat. Would you smoke a cigar while you're in there with the flag one? So your job is to take photos of women in beach with places. Welcome to the vlog. City where East meets west.

SPEAKER_06 6:31

I remember going to the mall, and my skirt was involved in my knee, and they gave you a red card.

SPEAKER_04 6:36

You have to watch what you say.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

I'm not gonna really talk about that. I like living here.

SPEAKER_04 6:50

We meet divides, glamorous locals, experts, and tourists.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

And the people that serve them wouldn't be a people that serve 24 kilometer gold amenities.

SPEAKER_04 7:12

In the world's newest luxury playground for the mega rich. It's the place where everybody wants to be.

SPEAKER_06 7:23

Everybody.

SPEAKER_10 7:25

Everybody That guy at the end, he's got that sort of um what's that? Is it Liam Fox? He's got Liam Fox face. He looks like Toad of Toad Hall.

SPEAKER_06 7:34

What what says Liam Fox's Natalie Imbruglier? Natalie Bruglier Bruglier's ex-boyfriend, Liam Fox.

SPEAKER_10 7:41

What?

SPEAKER_06 7:42

Did you not know that?

SPEAKER_10 7:43

No.

SPEAKER_06 7:44

Yeah, Liam Fox went out with Natalie and Bruglia.

SPEAKER_10 7:48

Yeah, fact check. Citation needed. I'm on Wikipedia right now.

SPEAKER_08 7:52

Google it. Natalie and Brugger.

SPEAKER_10 7:55

I'm gonna have to figure out how to spell Imbruglia.

SPEAKER_06 7:59

It's yeah, yeah, yeah. He he he was like involved in Torn being released. There was like some connection with with Torn and with Liam Fox and and Natalie Imbruglier. Wow, follow me in Tricky. Yeah. He he's like got his fingers in the pie of uh really naughty.

SPEAKER_10 8:25

Yeah, he's a he's a he's a he's a pop maker, star maker.

SPEAKER_08 8:31

Well, it turns out William Fox.

SPEAKER_10 8:39

He is a fox. Um Wow, okay, well that's that's new information, that's good. So Dubai Playgrounds from the Rich, um, that's my recommendation of the week. Um and I'll put the links in. So it's not on iPlayer anymore, but um it's it's on daily motion. Um so there'll be links in that. But it's it's a three-part uh reality TV show about um the people that uh really make Dubai um happen. Um it covers all the classes. You've got this the estate agents, the servants, the emerasi, all of the three classes.

SPEAKER_05 9:15

Yeah, do they get to the modern slavery or do they skip away with that? That's series two. Series two should be the modern slavery and the people fleeing.

SPEAKER_10 9:24

No, they have some very they have some very part of they have some very light touch uh, you know, Filipino in the kitchen. Uh here they are going to like the you know, downtown to the you know, we're going to the we're going to um you know Filipino town um to hang out for the day, sort of thing. Like, you know, because Dubai's obviously it's diverse, it's got Filipino quarter. Well, uh it's bit yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_06 9:49

Um I've been am I the only person on this call that's been to Dubai three times? What why come I offer my last job? I used to have to go to Dubai sometimes. It's like kind of part of the reason that I left because it well, I left for the traveling and lots of other things, but I yeah, I ended up having to go to Dubai three times and it was like the worst. It's like worse than you can imagine.

SPEAKER_08 10:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 10:12

And it's oh wait, when people talk when you talk about like modern slavery, you couldn't live in Dubai without visibly seeing it happen. Like people who say that they can't see it are like I was there for like in total a week and a half because I I'd generally just go for like a couple of days.

SPEAKER_10 10:27

Yeah, did you get your Lambo wrapped?

SPEAKER_06 10:30

No, not the three times. I would if I'd gone fourth time, I definitely would have, but I didn't have time.

SPEAKER_07 10:35

Yeah. Well, if you're having the worst ever time in Dubai, you're not the worst, you're not, yeah, because you're in the she she almost came up with like quite a witty sentence and she just didn't quite get there.

SPEAKER_08 10:49

It's all about tax and kaicos now anyway. That's where we're gonna go next. That's where we're going. We'll be doing this podcast on tax and cake cost next time. See you there. I d I thought you were all gonna say something.

SPEAKER_10 11:10

Problems of sound that we're examined.

SPEAKER_08 11:12

Oh no, a broken colour. Funny. Yeah, the problems of sound joke. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 11:22

Uh I was just Are you waiting for one to happen? No, she's wheeling it into existence.

SPEAKER_05 11:29

I just stopped muting myself when I'm when I'm laughing, because I guess that's fodder for the cut.

SPEAKER_10 11:34

Well, that's the thing. Nothing on here is funny, but if you leave yourself unmuted, you might laugh, and then it gives the illusion of um humor to me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

Fuck it, I'm playing the theme sheet.

SPEAKER_05 11:45

Roll it, roll it.

SPEAKER_03 11:47

Yeah, the problems of sound are examined in order that audio equipment should function satisfactorily, and that the noises made by electrical appliances should not be too disturbing. It spares the globe like a superhighway. It is cold internet.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Because if you want a Marxist, then you're into revolutionary and into bringing down capitalism.

A Millenial Pause

SPEAKER_05 12:52

So yeah, fully uh Marxist.

SPEAKER_10 13:02

Cool, done. That's all we needed. Confirmed Marxist. Shireen, this is the bit where you host the program and introduce it.

SPEAKER_07 13:15

Yeah, but we were talking about whether we were or weren't Marxists.

SPEAKER_10 13:18

You just you left a millennial pause, so I did, I did, I did, I did, I did.

SPEAKER_07 13:23

I'm sorry to uh uh one young viewer. Um apologies. I will try not to do any more millennial pauses. I can't guarantee it though. I am very old. So hello and welcome to www, workers of the world wide web. Today with us, we have myself, who is your beautiful, amazing, and talented um chair, chair of the pod. And with us, we also have our podcast daddy, um, podcast patriarch, um any other kind of like um uh misandressed description of him. Edwin, welcome. We also have Eleanor is here and she's our treasurer, and um, she's also been allowed to attend today. And with us, we have like a brilliant special guest who I'm so happy to introduce uh guest G special guest alert. So Dan G is a member of our Union United Token Allied Workers. They also work um well, they volunteer with London Renters Union and help organize tenant protection and different um actions that people are doing. Um they're with us today to speak about what's happening in the London Renters Union and to talk about the new. Um what you have to wait, Dan, until I'm really sorry.

SPEAKER_05 14:54

I thought it would be um that sorry, I apologize.

SPEAKER_10 14:56

Yeah, we've got to roll it back and go back. We've got to do the theme tune all over again now. Hold on, one sec, rolling it back.

SPEAKER_07 15:03

I'd be so sweet. You're the boss. No, Dan, you can say hi now. I permit it.

SPEAKER_05 15:09

It's nice to be here. I really appreciate the intro. Thank you.

SPEAKER_07 15:14

Yay. I haven't actually seen you in a long time, I think.

SPEAKER_05 15:21

Yeah, we met ages ago at a uh demo outside Well, we say things, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 15:30

We met in Lewisham, and I was shocked that you came so so far to support trade unions.

SPEAKER_05 15:37

Um you have since asked me to come back, and I I haven't. Which I I'm in North London and the river.

SPEAKER_06 15:44

Excuse me. Anything south of the river too far?

SPEAKER_10 15:48

I would like to come. Could I get on the what, the Victoria line? The northern line?

SPEAKER_06 15:52

The DLR.

SPEAKER_10 15:53

DLR.

SPEAKER_06 15:55

I love the DLR. I've already been on the DLR once today, I'm about to get on it again.

SPEAKER_07 15:59

So but not to see me.

SPEAKER_06 16:01

No, to the Apple Shop.

SPEAKER_05 16:02

To Monorail.

SPEAKER_06 16:04

Yeah, Monorail.

SPEAKER_10 16:06

There's nothing worse than having to go to Newcross Gate.

SPEAKER_06 16:09

No. Nothing. I'll what are we talking about today? Because it's a very special episode, I heard. So renters in general, special episode.

SPEAKER_07 16:27

No, only specific renters.

unknown 16:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 16:30

Only unionized renters.

SPEAKER_07 16:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 16:32

It's a unionised renters only special. So no one else may apply or listen.

SPEAKER_07 16:38

So I think like in this section, we wanted to talk about what tenants unions are, how they compare to trade unions, and why aren't there that many of them in the UK, what they do, what the choices are, and which one you should join. And um, there's some things here for Edwin that I'm not gonna read out. So today, taking a break from our normal trade unions agenda to present a special report on matters of housing, landlords, land barons, land tenant organizing and the renters' rights act. So um I'm gonna start us off asking our special guest some questions. Um what is tenants organizing?

SPEAKER_05 17:23

What is it? It's um I I guess it's when renters and when we say renters in the London Renters Union at least we mean anyone who pays rent. That includes like social renters, social tenants, uh paying rent to councils, uh, social housing, housing associations, private landlords, all those people. Um yeah. Uh the point is to organize ourselves so that we have some like collective power uh to support each other when we have problems in our housing, which most most people do, uh whether it's damp or the rent being too damn high, um, or a million other things. And we yeah, we try and find ways to like exert like collective leverage in the same way that you would in a trade union context when you work with other people and that you have the same boss. Um we try and find ways to like, yeah, leverage the power of renters as a class um within yeah society.

SPEAKER_08 18:18

Yeah. What's the difference?

SPEAKER_06 18:21

So the main difference obviously is that tenants unions are unions of tenants and a trades union is unions like uh uh work like workers, right? And generally they're in the same sector or the same employment. Do you like or do you think you organize quite similarly to a trade union compared to a tenants union? I've always wondered that. Like how how do tenants unions organize and how do they like recruit?

SPEAKER_05 18:43

Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, like obviously uh the thing that unites you in a like a workers' union, or like one of the things, one of the reasons you'd organize with other people is because you have the same, you're in the same workplace. Um, it doesn't like so far, a lot of I think tenant organizing doesn't always work like that, especially in the UK, because we have such a fragmented sector, uh like private renter sector, for example. Like there's so many mini landlords who own like one or two or three or four properties, thanks to like decades of terrible policies like buy to buy to let and uh you know the right to buy as well, things like that. So um yeah, a lot of it's geographically based. It's like you're in your neighborhood. Um and it's about like yeah, building bonds of solidarity and connection uh with your neighbours and with people who live nearby as as much as it is people who have the same landlord. But when we find like blocks that have do have the same landlord, that can be a really powerful site of of organizing because you all have such this this really obvious thing in common, obviously. So it's a mix of those two things, I would say. Um yeah. And there's it's quite hard finding strategies in the in the private rental sector in particular because it's so fragmented. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 19:54

I I I was thinking earlier about how like you know, obviously we we we we we talk a lot about organizing in the tech sector and how um difficult it can be in jobs that are primarily like distributed remote workers, um people working in different locations, lots of people working from home. Um where you'll have you you you'll be trying to organise groups of people who uh don't spend a lot of time working face to face and don't have a lot of um uh social interaction, social connection, they don't have a lot of time to talk to each other about issues. A lot of their interaction is very procedural or um you know through network structures. Um and how difficult that can be to really kind of talk about important stuff and talk about working conditions and issues that people face. Um and I was thinking about um uh yeah, tenant organizing and how like yeah, it's it's it's it's really difficult to uh yeah, I I live in a block of flats here and I have a sort of like vague sense of the issues that people face in in this particular building. Um but uh you know I've got no no idea who uh I mean the re w one of the one of the reasons why I was talking about the um the the Dubai uh estate agent programme a minute ago is like m my my landlord is a is a is like a P.O. box in Dubai. Like I actually don't know who my landlord is. I I know that is actually illegal, like you should have a name landlord, but as far as I know I have a I have a l I have like a you know a a a management company and and and a P.O. box in Dubai that that that my flat is owned by. And actually, this is a side note that's c completely gonna uh derail what I was talking about, but I I really like that 'cause um they never they ne they don't care. And they never come over and they never meddle. And actually I think I think they've forgotten about me because they never put the rent up and they never they never audit anything or check anything. Um they just they just leave me alone. Now If something went wrong and now and again like you know the boiler doesn't work or something like that and we have to phone up the whatever it is, fine. But like I I I I kind of I like the idea that they they leave us alone um and let us done with it. But that's that's um you know, we're lucky 'cause we don't have too many issues. But anyway. Um But yeah, so um Yeah, my my my my the the people who are in the blocks to either side, like I I I d you know, I d I I don't have a huge amount of interaction and connection with those people. And particularly as housing kind of changes and the the way especially new things are built where they don't have as much um shared infrastructure and shared spaces. New blocks of flats are built without um things like uh playgrounds for children or like shared um uh like access ways, gangways and things like that. Places where people might interact, um fewer shared spaces, fewer like shared I mean you like even simple things like uh blocks of flats with um you know, cafes and uh shops and things that are like you know built into the structures of them. So so so the infrastructures that we live in are increasingly like like physically designed to be isolated, right? They're designed in such a way where we we don't we don't interact with the people around us. Um which is weird and horrible. Um but yeah that those sort of structures they they make it much much harder to um organise within, right? But actually they're not that dissimilar to the the the the issues we face organizing in tech where we're all working remote or whatever it is. It's not that different.

SPEAKER_06 23:43

I haven't sorry to just like bombard you with the questions. So when you were talking, I was thinking because I've had an issue in my block of flats, which we spoke about before, not and not today, but like last week or whatever. And I was it's made me think like I'm in Acorn, so not it's not Rennes Union, but like say so I can see you know, if you've got like hundreds of people or like a hundred people, even 500 people who are having like the same issue in their workplace um not their workplace in in their building. You can see how maybe like a union coming in would be helpful, but say like it's like five people. How does a union help those people? Like what what are the structures like to collective power when it's such a small number of people? We we do have that in uh at Utah, right? When like it could be a workplace, it's only ten people. How do you it's harder when all ten people could fight, but still it's a small number of people and it's hard to have do you know anything about that? I'm not asking for myself, I'm just genuinely curious about like what the structure's like for stuff like that.

SPEAKER_05 24:52

Yeah, I mean there's a few things. There's like obviously we make use of whatever laws exist, which is not very many, to support renters. Like we have very few rights. We will, and we're gonna talk about this, have significantly more rights in like two weeks' time, which is very exciting. And we're gonna try and use that to our advantage. Um, and we have some plans for that, which I can talk about as well. But um I think it depends on a lot of factors. Like, I guess if there's 10 people in a workplace, um if you can shut down the whole operation, it's still very effective. And in the same way, if you have one landlord and they and that those are that's all their properties, then you can have a significant impact. If you did a rent strike, like you know, that's their completely unearned income being like sharp at the source, um, which would probably disrupt their life quite significantly, you imagine. Of course, a lot of these people might be like, you know, billionaire management firms or whatever who have PO boxes in Dubai who uh really don't give a shit if 10 of their flats don't pay rent for a bit, they can totally starve them out. Do you know what I mean? So yeah, this is a problem we have. Like renters actually have very little power um in terms of also in terms of like written into law, which is why we are combining like educating each other on renters' rights so that we know what we can, what levers we can pull legally. Um, we do like resist evictions and things like that, because when it comes to it, if you just stay in your home and uh eventually the bailiffs come and we see them off so they can't actually evict you, then you're still in your home and like you we we bought you some time. So there's ways and means to like fight the things that people would do when it comes to when push comes to shove.

SPEAKER_08 26:28

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:28

And then also we campaign obviously for like policy change, for like change in the law, for like structural changes in terms of how the economy is organized. Because that's the the eventual that's how we win eventually, right? Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:42

Yeah, that's how that's the the bit you've just said about like educating people is I'd forgotten about that, but like most people not most people, but like so many people don't know their like their most basic rights. Never mind, like the rights that are more complicated, but like would be really helpful. That's really interesting.

SPEAKER_08 27:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 27:02

Shereen's politely put her hand up because I keep talking over you. Yeah, we all talk over.

SPEAKER_07 27:08

You know, I'm very timid. Can you stop? I'm gonna fight you. You I'm not gonna fight anyone, please label just leave this bit alone. Um I actually this week went to my first ever LRU like peer support um meeting in Lewisham and something that really like struck me was like the solidarity. And I I and I we're not like a very like online union, but like it really shocked me uh how much people showed up for other people, and that like you know, people have had their own experiences and been supported and then come back and been like, yeah, I've done this, so we should do this. They're talking about like mass email campaigns which have been like shutting down people's like inboxes and getting like the council to like take stuff seriously. Um, they're talking about like protests going on outside, and it's just like all of these like social media campaigns, just like stuff that can really like affect these like powerful people. And I think it's awesome because I do think that these people seem to like fully like understand um solidarity, I guess. And maybe there's something about like your housing circumstance being so like life or death that it encourages you to do the stuff like like that and actually like contribute towards the success of your union and the strength of your union. Um, I don't know what Dan thinks about that.

SPEAKER_05 28:54

That sounds beautiful. I'm so glad you went to your first peer support meeting.

SPEAKER_08 28:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:58

I think yeah, the peer support meetings are are really fantastic, and we've started rolling them out like basically in Newarem. It was really, really successful. This idea of having a weekly peer support meeting where there's food, people cook every week, and you go around the circle and people talk about their housing issues and support each other like directly. And that that was just so successful as a model. And yeah, was like the solidarity was so palpable in the room that we just thought this is how we should be organizing. And now every branch is trying to roll that out and do it every week, or depending on the resources they have available, like maybe every two weeks. Um, and I think that's really powerful because, in like in a workers' rights context as well, in a worker organizing context, so much of it is about dignity and respect and people just feeling like disempowered and silenced and things like that, or like they've been fighting the same problem for 20 years and just not making any progress because they haven't had anyone else having their back. And so much of what we do is like is at least at this point in the struggle, is is like just empowering people to do something more about it and and get a bit more access to like other people's know-how and you know, hear people's stories. That could be so powerful. It might be something that's totally resolvable with a little bit of pressure on the the power holder, as it were. Um I that's really love to hear about, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 30:18

I really enjoyed that. Like um, someone had been having the same housing issue for like like what you're saying, 15 years, and they were so like burned out, and then um, you know, we were talking about options for like emails and who they should contact next and what they could be doing, and blah blah blah. But you know, when someone's really like burnt out and destroyed, so like what was really helpful was like the LRU representatives who were there were just like, We've got time right now. Should I help you write the email now? And it was so like cute, you could just see like the weight kind of lifted a little bit, and it was like, Oh, yeah, that's great. Um, I wanted to ask a question though. I mean, I don't know if you know this, Dan, but actually, I'm running for council, which is why I'm really scared of Labour.

SPEAKER_06 31:10

Um you're scared to cancel yourself on the podcast so you don't get smeared. Yeah, because they're gonna smear me.

SPEAKER_07 31:20

I feel like they're they are looking for any excuse to smear me.

SPEAKER_05 31:23

They're gonna send the fan round with the with the fucking signs.

SPEAKER_07 31:25

Oh my gosh, they can't fan. Have they already done that? Yeah, they can't.

SPEAKER_10 31:30

You're running to council, you've never mentioned that before. So strange, you should talk about that. Also, I just wanna I uh as you're talking about this right now, um, I can see an organizing posse has just gathered outside of my flat, and I'm gonna send you a photo of them.

SPEAKER_06 31:43

But um I literally, as we were sorry to interrupt as we were talking, I just got uh uh Tower Hamlet's independence post through Nice.

SPEAKER_10 31:51

They might be greens, they look like greens. They've got oh no, they've got caps on.

SPEAKER_08 31:56

The greens wear caps on kind of cap.

SPEAKER_10 31:58

Right, I'm zooming in.

SPEAKER_06 32:00

What was your question, Shuen? Yeah, I'm just going for a moment. Let Shoeen speak.

SPEAKER_08 32:04

They're greens! They're greens!

SPEAKER_07 32:11

Okay, well as part of like casework and stuff, uh just dealing with someone who's been like dealing with the council and they've not been working very well for ages. Um, I am, I don't know if you know this, I know that I'm just boasting now at this point, but I am if not one of the I think I'm the highest recruiter in this fucking union. Yeah, big up Shireen. However, when I'm talking to like residents about like collective action when they directly don't have an issue in a block, um, I find it I found it very difficult. And this is like they're talking, we're talking about like trying to go up against fucking Peabody, you know, Peabody kind of scummy all around. Um and so I felt like a lot of people did feel like if I don't have an issue right now with my housing, I don't want to be involved in this and like risk like rocking the boat. So are there any like skills that you've picked up to kind of get around that and help like blocks organize?

SPEAKER_05 33:13

Yeah, that's super uh classic problem, interesting problem. Uh the example I would give is like so we have a member who um is was in North Hill Genesis housing. Obviously, you have loads of these big housing associations who are just like terrible, like North Hill Genesis, London A Quarter, Clarion, Peabody, so many of them, Guinness, so many of them, like that the housing is terrible, uh, although they're like their approach to fixing stuff is terrible, etc. Um, we have a member who was like in temporary accommodation with uh their child, like 30 different places. Um, they joined the union and eventually got housed properly, and and they did up their flat really nice um in the in the new block they put them in. But everyone else in that block, they've they had been like you know left to rot, in for want of a better phrase. And there was like rising damp and there was rats, all this kind of stuff. And so we were like, okay, this member's fired up, and they're up for like basically leading a campaign to try and organize this block and like demand better conditions from Nottinghill Genesis. Um so we did a lot of door knocking, uh, because that's we do, right? It's all about door knocking uh and phone banking. It's like the the the bread and bar. Um and people were like, Yeah, we it's fine, we haven't got any issues, we it's all good, you know what I mean? Uh and we're like, okay, but have, for example, like where there's a rat in one place, there's usually rats elsewhere, for example, and they're like, Oh, yeah, there's rats. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know, we like we put this in and we did that, and you know, I don't see them too much. And so sometimes sometimes people generally have no problems, but a lot of times I think people have problems, but they're so used to dice like get no help with it.

SPEAKER_06 34:52

The standard the standard is low, like they've lowered their own.

SPEAKER_05 34:56

So you're raising expectations as well. You're like, okay, but what if we could do something about this? And then you tell stories of like how you won or how this member like had this happen after taking these at these steps, and then hopefully, if it's just a good conversation, you can hope maybe convince them that something might be able to change. But you only have to find a few people in the block to start things rolling.

SPEAKER_06 35:16

Was the whole was the whole block owned by Notting Hill Genesis?

SPEAKER_05 35:19

Whole block with Nottinghill Genesis, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting.

SPEAKER_06 35:22

So obviously that helps from the regard of collectivizing, like my issue is is with Notting Hill Genesis as well, but they only own one block one flat in my block of flats, which is quite an unusual thing.

SPEAKER_08 35:34

Interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:35

But yeah, I'm I'm I might message you to see because they haven't been very helpful with the issue. Totally.

SPEAKER_05 35:41

I mean we're like kind of going after them. Yeah, oh my god. I've said it now. I'm ready to have loads of members in Nottinghill Genesis across the city. Umbe we should have a Nottinghill Genesis branch. We're like thinking about different ways to organize ourselves. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 35:54

That's that would be really good.

unknown 35:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:55

Yeah, they've like with this one person in support there's one person in supported accommodation in my block of flats that isn't being is clearly being given like no support like whatsoever. It's like affecting the whole block of flats. Anyway.

SPEAKER_10 36:07

Uh real-time update on the the Green Party contingent um across the road outside my flat. So one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven. So there's twelve of them now. Um eleven of them have got caps on. One of them is very hesitant about putting a cap on, but she's considering a badge from the cardboard box.

SPEAKER_05 36:27

Oh, they're like Green Pi caps.

SPEAKER_10 36:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:30

They're like branded. Okay. Yeah, they're branded.

Quiz: Renters Rights? Renters Wrongs!

SPEAKER_10 36:33

Yeah. They've they've broken out now, so they've got they've got uh three clipboards, um, so they're ready to go. One one party has just um just just left. So I'm really hoping they knock on the door any minute because we'll get them on live in real time. Um so this is very exciting. Uh real time um organizing happen um right now, live in real time. Very exciting. Um should we do the quiz?

SPEAKER_06 36:57

Let's do the quiz. I'm very excited. This is every boo!

SPEAKER_10 37:03

Come in. Well done. Congratulations. Um the prize is um that your votes in the uh uh the motion section later on counts for double.

SPEAKER_06 37:24

Democracy, double democracy. It's half democracy for everyone else, don't you?

SPEAKER_10 37:30

It's half democracy from everyone else. So your prize is that you everyone else gets half democracy in the democ in the democracy section later on. How does that sound? So I thought what we do is we do a quiz about uh renters' rights. Um I've I've called this quiz uh doo doo doo, renters' rights, renters wrongs.

SPEAKER_07 37:48

Ooh.

SPEAKER_10 37:49

Um each quiz.

SPEAKER_07 37:51

Is it a hands-up or a shout-out type of quiz?

SPEAKER_10 37:54

You need to buzz in with a sound effect. Shereen, what's your sound effect? Okay, good sound effect. Uh Eleanor, what's your sound effect?

unknown 38:04

Ah!

SPEAKER_10 38:05

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_08 38:05

I thought it was just I can think of No, I couldn't think of one.

SPEAKER_10 38:09

Uh Dan, what's your sound effect? Uh three very distinct sound effects. Alright, there's ten questions. Um you can count your own points. I'll be totting them up in the edit afterwards. Um question one. Um why did I start with this one as question one? It's a terrible question. What does Yimbi stand for?

SPEAKER_06 38:28

Yes, in my back. Oh didn't do the noise.

SPEAKER_10 38:33

Dream, you did your back noise. Would you like to present your answer?

SPEAKER_07 38:36

Yes, in my back yard.

SPEAKER_08 38:41

Sars, babe. Tell me what does it mean?

SPEAKER_07 38:49

Oh, it means that you're you're down for just like any kind of building. You're just happy to have building going on around you. You're like, oh, nice park, let's turn it into buildings. You're like, oh yeah, man, some flats? Why not? We should have more flats. More car parks. Car parks, yeah. Love car parks. Turn a car park into um into a flat and then build some more car parks on top of the flats that you build. That's what a yimbi is.

SPEAKER_10 39:17

Some flats in the flats. So where where's the podcast on the yimbis versus nimbis? I didn't really think very further than this. I think the reason I put this in there is because I thought uh what might be a good follow-up to uh uh a yimbi might be like a yimbo, like I'm a yimbi bimbo, I'm a yimbo.

SPEAKER_06 39:31

Yeah, that's good. I like it.

SPEAKER_10 39:34

Yajimbo. Um I'm a yimbo. Um I'm not a yimbo. It's got legs. Okay, cool. Um yimbo's got legs title. Um okay, question two. Uh what is the section 21 notice?

SPEAKER_08 39:49

Oh, boo-boo-boo!

SPEAKER_10 39:51

Wait, I heard a sound effect. I heard a Dan sound effect, I think.

SPEAKER_05 39:54

It might not have been the one I made up. But yeah, it's when you get evicted for absolutely no reason. They literally can't even think of anything. They just kick you out. They're just like, fuck off, yeah. Can we swear on here? Yeah, we can't. They're just like fuck off. Yeah, yeah. That's it. And then you have to leave. Unless they did a bad job at the form, which happens a lot.

SPEAKER_10 40:16

Has anyone ever been evicted before?

SPEAKER_06 40:19

Um I've been evicted.

SPEAKER_05 40:23

Definitely been evicted.

SPEAKER_06 40:25

It was awful.

SPEAKER_05 40:26

It was we trashed the fucking place.

SPEAKER_06 40:29

I muted myself. Yeah, it was a very stressful m uh uh uh moment.

SPEAKER_10 40:33

Does anyone want to go through? I've been actually evicted to the channel. I feel like this would be a good one.

SPEAKER_06 40:38

But once it was just they were sat in the house, if that does that count as evicted? Not really.

SPEAKER_05 40:43

But when they're telling the truth. Didn't you go back and check?

SPEAKER_06 40:47

No, because I moved to China.

SPEAKER_05 40:49

Oh, yeah, fair.

SPEAKER_06 40:51

But my second one I w I w was a a fault eviction.

SPEAKER_10 40:56

The the the the best landlord I ever had, um Steve.

SPEAKER_08 41:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 41:01

Um when I when I moved in, I I went to view the flat and he said, Look, he said, I've got six children in Israel. Um do you have any idea how much a jar of honey costs in Israel? That's why you need to pay your rent on time. And then offered me a firm handshake. How much is How much is a jar of honey?

SPEAKER_06 41:26

Yeah, in Israel though.

SPEAKER_10 41:28

Six quid. I just made that number up. Um but I knew I was that that that that sold me. Um that was good information. Um and then um there was like quite a regular occurrence. There was like two like um uh like Hasidic boys that would come round on a Friday evening. They would knock on the door and they'd say, like, where's is is Steve around? And I'd say, um no, he doesn't live here.

SPEAKER_08 41:58

They kept coming.

SPEAKER_10 42:00

Yeah, they kept coming. They kept coming. I I asked him about it once and he said, Yeah, never please don't tell them where I live. Um but yeah, no, Steve evicted me once. Um so that was that was one of the best evictions I've got. When when Steve evicted me though, um my uh uh uh uh cohabiter at the time, um who was a um uh like a Berliner from Berlin, um he said uh like um so like Steve said you know sorry, sorry, I'm evicting you in and he said oh you he was like oh oh no, we have to find somewhere new to live in twelve months' time. No. We've got like a month, we've got a month to move out, you've got no idea. They've got it good in Germany.

SPEAKER_05 42:52

They have some rights, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 42:55

They do have slightly better workers' rights. Um that was the best time I was evicted, I reckon. He was a good landlord.

SPEAKER_05 43:01

Shireen, did you say you still got evicted? Was that also section 21? Was it something else?

SPEAKER_07 43:06

Uh I think it was a section. I don't remember. That was so long ago. I blocked it out. Um my landlord just wanted to sell their house and was just like, yeah, get the fuck out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 43:18

These are all relevant things that are gonna come up later in the quiz. Um I forgot we were doing a quiz. Uh okay. Number three, uh, how much notice does your landlord need to give to evict you?

SPEAKER_07 43:32

Uh two months. It's two months.

SPEAKER_08 43:36

Oh. I didn't know.

SPEAKER_05 43:37

No, what about in 20 days' time? Are we doing it? But yeah, I'm not.

SPEAKER_10 43:43

Bonus point. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_06 43:45

Let's do it now.

SPEAKER_10 43:46

Bonus point. Go on.

SPEAKER_06 43:47

Four months.

SPEAKER_05 43:48

Four months, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:49

I knew that. I didn't just look at Dan's hand up.

SPEAKER_10 43:54

It's a it's a quiz where we all learn. It's an educational, it's a member benefit, this podcast.

SPEAKER_05 44:00

Not twenty days, fifteen days. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 44:04

Um okay, question number four. Uh how many weeks rent deposit are they is a landlord allowed to ask you for? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_08 44:16

Yeah?

SPEAKER_07 44:16

I think is it six weeks?

SPEAKER_08 44:23

I said four weeks.

SPEAKER_10 44:24

Is it four weeks? In incorrect.

SPEAKER_06 44:27

Oh, is this current? I'm thinking about the okay. Is it a year?

SPEAKER_10 44:30

You know, this is a really good point. Right now. The questions uh as I've written them are a mix of currently and what is changing.

SPEAKER_05 44:39

So um really clear for people about the rights they're gonna have on May the 1st.

SPEAKER_10 44:44

Yeah, yeah. This is what we're learning about. Um you can tell you can tell me either and I will award points. I also didn't tell you how many points you get for each question. You get um what's the hardest thing? You get 17 points per correct quest answer. But you've got to track how many you got because I won't I'm not counting. Uh sorry, what was the answer?

SPEAKER_05 45:10

It's gonna be four weeks. Maybe it's like any amount now.

SPEAKER_10 45:16

I've got five weeks.

SPEAKER_08 45:17

Oh.

SPEAKER_10 45:18

Yeah. They're allowed to ask for amount of time.

SPEAKER_08 45:21

Oh, but you can do they can do that.

SPEAKER_10 45:24

I think under the new legislation they're allowed to ask for up to five weeks, which is is taken to mean up to f to five to five weeks, a month, a month, five weeks.

SPEAKER_08 45:39

It's time to wake up.

SPEAKER_10 45:40

It's time to wake up. Uh okay, question number five. We're doing well so far. Has everyone got a track of how many points they've got? Because I need to award a winner.

SPEAKER_06 45:47

I've got none. I mean easily track trackable.

SPEAKER_10 45:50

Because I need to multiply these. I do need to multiply these by seven points. Absolutely no clue. And then the half points, which is whatever half of seventeen is. Um under the new rules, okay, I've been specific about this one, good on me. Uh name a valid reason for a landlord to evict me.

SPEAKER_08 46:08

Your face.

SPEAKER_10 46:10

Oh in incorrect.

SPEAKER_06 46:16

Is this under the new law?

SPEAKER_10 46:17

Did you say a under the under the new law?

SPEAKER_06 46:20

Selling the house?

SPEAKER_10 46:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 46:23

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:24

Or being an antisocial little miscreant.

SPEAKER_10 46:26

Yeah. Yeah. Being a miscreant in in your in in or around your house.

SPEAKER_07 46:34

Around the house. Yeah, if you're in if like rent arrears of like what is it like rent arrears of two months or three months or something? It will be three months. No.

SPEAKER_08 46:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 46:46

So rent arrears being being a I think miscreant was the word that we decided on for Manila. Um any others?

SPEAKER_05 46:53

Just about that. I'm pro miscreants. I'm not, I'm just saying that's the law, you know. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 46:59

Yeah, the law's fucking shit. It doesn't protect us all.

SPEAKER_05 47:02

Very bad. Yeah, yeah. It's like it's not their bad.

SPEAKER_10 47:06

Alright. Other reasons I've got here is if the landlord decides that they want to move into the property.

SPEAKER_06 47:12

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_10 47:13

So they want to kick you out.

SPEAKER_06 47:14

They're family members, right?

SPEAKER_10 47:16

When they want to move in, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:18

That was my eviction. Is man wanting to move in from like South uh South Gate, where it was called, not South Gate? Well, someone at the end of the Norman line going on Piccadilly.

SPEAKER_10 47:27

North Gate.

SPEAKER_05 47:27

No, Piccadilly all the way.

SPEAKER_06 47:30

Southall.

SPEAKER_08 47:31

No.

SPEAKER_10 47:31

Have you played the game where you have to name all the tube lines on the map? All the tube lines?

SPEAKER_06 47:38

Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_10 47:38

There's a game that's called something. Oh, I've lost the tab now.

SPEAKER_06 47:42

It's the tube stops. You have to remember all the tube stops.

SPEAKER_10 47:45

I'll put it in the notes. There's a game where you have to name all the tube stops.

SPEAKER_05 47:47

It's also a good theme for a pie.

SPEAKER_06 47:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 47:52

Alright, so we didn't do very well on that one. So points awarded. Um I'll figure that out in the edit. Um uh number six. Oh, this is a really bad question. What tell me, what's a bidding war?

SPEAKER_06 48:07

Is it when, say, the rent is like 400 a month?

SPEAKER_08 48:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 48:10

And then you're like, well, I'll pay 450 to get the flat, and then someone else is like, well, I'll pay 500 because they just are desperate for a house because there isn't enough housing stock.

SPEAKER_10 48:19

Yeah. I so I feel I might be wrong about this, but I feel like this is a relatively like recent invention, like in the last sort of five or six years. I could be completely wrong. I could have just been lucky here, but I feel like lots of I think the flat I moved I'm currently in, we had to negotiate over the rent, which seems ridiculous. There's an advertised amount of rent. Yeah. We had they were like, make us an offer. Make us an offer that you can't refuse. Um so I know that's a fairly recent thing, but yeah, under the new legislation that's gonna be outlawed, right?

SPEAKER_05 48:54

Yes, it's illegalized by systems. You can still negotiate the other way. Don't forget undercut. They're kinda rinse you.

SPEAKER_08 49:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:05

They're probably going over over like quote unquote market level. So be like, no, I'm not paying that. What about two one? You know, and just save three, four hundred quid off and see what happens. Worst I can do is say no. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_08 49:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:19

We did it recently.

SPEAKER_08 49:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:21

Did you succeed? Yeah, we successfully got 200 pounds knocked off. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 49:25

Oh no.

SPEAKER_05 49:26

Just moved. I just moved, I just signed a contract, it's gonna be abolished in 15 days' time.

unknown 49:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 49:33

Again, I think my my Dubai landlord hasn't re has forgotten that we live here, so uh they've they've not increased the rent.

SPEAKER_06 49:39

So do did landlords have to exist in contracts, do they have to all be redone? That's a question, maybe for later. But I want to let you know.

SPEAKER_05 49:47

They just have to they have to tell you about the new law. Which is within like five weeks, yeah, which is actually a great part of the legislation, I think.

SPEAKER_06 49:55

And then what happens if they don't?

SPEAKER_07 49:57

Do you get price?

SPEAKER_06 50:03

But if you know and your landlord hasn't told you, that the landlord doesn't need to know that you know, you can just complain and say they didn't tell me.

SPEAKER_10 50:09

Yeah. Well, I think this so um great question. I did I didn't really put this in here, but like I think I think one of the big problems with a lot of these changes is is is how you dispute a lot of these things, right? So there's there's uh one of the changes is that there's like an ombudsman for um disputing uh rents. But yeah, I mean for a lot it it it it's very very similar to employment issues. There's uh you know, in the same way that you'd go to an employment tribunal if you've got an issue at work, you can you can go to a tribunal for issues with your um landlord, right? But you know, you you need to know about how these things work and you need to have access to you know we we in in the context of a trade union, you need you probably need to talk to a union rep to understand how that process works. In the context of rents, you might need to talk to um uh a union rep as well. Um it's a good thing about having trade unions. It's a reason to join the London rent sector.

SPEAKER_05 51:06

Yeah. Which there will now be for later in 2026.

SPEAKER_10 51:09

Yeah. Yeah, that's new as well. One of the changes coming in through this change, isn't it? Cool. Alright, number where do we get up to? Uh bidding war. Uh okay, number seven.

SPEAKER_08 51:19

Uh how often can your landlord increase the rent? Do I get a sound?

SPEAKER_10 51:31

Once a year.

unknown 51:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 51:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 51:33

Yeah, once a year. So they can increase your rent um but only um in line with uh market rates. They can't um just kick it up, however, you can challenge it if it's not a market rate, is that right. You can. You can challenge it, you can go to the ombudsman.

SPEAKER_05 51:48

This is not however, it used to be that if you took it to tribunal, it could come back to bite you because actually the tribunal could decide that your mark your rent was not high enough. Yeah, and they could backdate it. So then you might be on the line to pay your landlord even.

SPEAKER_06 52:00

But that's men that's such a cra what a crazy system to have. Is that going to change with the with the new law?

SPEAKER_05 52:05

That is changing. There will be no possible bad outcomes to going to tribunal. Yeah, everyone should always go to tribunal, in fact. Yeah, yeah. Because if worse comes to worse, they decide that the rent is fine and it gets delayed in terms of its imposition by like two months or whatever. Or longer if the tribunal system gets kind of plogged up. God forbid, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 52:32

Uh okay, number uh eight. Uh can I have a pet?

SPEAKER_08 52:37

Yes, under new rules.

SPEAKER_10 52:39

Oh yeah, no, Shereen did the sound effects. Sound effects of all the matters.

SPEAKER_08 52:45

Yeah, under the new rules.

SPEAKER_10 52:48

Under the new rules.

unknown 52:50

Boo-boo-boo-boo.

SPEAKER_06 52:51

You can request, you can, but you don't have an absolute right, right?

SPEAKER_05 52:55

You can request a pet. They can't have a reason.

SPEAKER_06 52:59

But it's the same as like a reasonable adjustment.

SPEAKER_05 53:00

They often will find a way to reasonability thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 53:05

Question 10. Name uh a valid excuse to deny my claim for having a pet.

unknown 53:12

Woohoo!

SPEAKER_10 53:14

Yeah. Oh, is it like you can't do the sound effect and then not have an answer ready to go.

SPEAKER_07 53:19

You lose points for that.

SPEAKER_10 53:22

Is it allergies? Ooh. I I actually don't I didn't write down an answer for this, I just made that question up on the spot. Which is hence now this quiz has 11 questions.

SPEAKER_06 53:34

I what about the first thing that came to my mind is like, what if there's like really nice carpets?

SPEAKER_10 53:39

Ooh.

SPEAKER_07 53:40

Oh no, I think that's not a valid excuse, though. I think it's valid.

SPEAKER_10 53:44

So from from my googlings, from my googlings earlier, it was like if if the the the flat that you live in is not like accommodating to the fl the the the pet that you have. So let's say you have like a really large, what's the largest pet you can get?

SPEAKER_06 53:58

Lion. Lion.

SPEAKER_05 53:59

A wolf hound.

SPEAKER_06 54:00

Yeah, wolf hound.

SPEAKER_10 54:01

Lion slash wolfhound half lion, half wolf hound.

SPEAKER_06 54:05

If you don't have a meadow for your half-lion slash half wolfhound, like if I wanted a horse in my second floor flat, they'd be like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 54:12

No, no meadow, no, no go.

unknown 54:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_10 54:15

Completely reasonable. So I'm I'm in this case, I'm on the side of landlords here, because if you don't have a meadow and you've got a horse annual ethics position, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 54:24

Yeah, the RSPCA, it's the first time they'll be getting involved in like housing tribunals.

SPEAKER_10 54:30

Yeah. Well, I've got like what what if I've got like 40 pigs and they've only got to say pigs?

SPEAKER_07 54:36

What if I wanted pigs?

SPEAKER_10 54:37

Fer feral hogs. What if I've got uh 40 40 feral hogs?

SPEAKER_05 54:42

Um no woodland.

SPEAKER_10 54:45

And no woodland. Exactly. I think that's a completely reasonable um excuse.

SPEAKER_05 54:50

This is gonna be some case law shit, isn't it? It's like we have to see what arguments people make, and then we'll decide. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 54:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 54:57

All right. Question How many questions are there This is the last one, but I've forgotten what we were up to because I added in the next one.

SPEAKER_06 55:04

That was eleven then.

SPEAKER_10 55:06

This is eleven's coming up now. Um if a landlord tells you they're going to evict you, um, because they're going to sell their property, right? This is the only question that has so many words in it, I've already forgotten the question. Um so if a landlord tells you they're going to evict you because they're they're gonna sell the flat, uh but actually they're not, but they're just gonna relist it and they're gonna uh uh uh jack up the rent more than market rates.

SPEAKER_08 55:33

Um how long do they have to wait before they can uh relist it? The most specific, boring question that's ever been asked in a quiz.

SPEAKER_05 55:47

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_10 55:48

In section 17 B of the Employment Uh Renters Rights Act of 2025. Okay. Uh so it turns out that if they want to sell your flat, uh you have to they have to wait a year. So basically the i i i there's a um intentional disincentivization of them like selling your flat.

SPEAKER_05 56:08

Um because they're not sure they're actually gonna do it.

SPEAKER_10 56:11

Yeah, if yeah. So the problem here is that like with section 21 they can uh you know evict you with no cause. So that's the existing structure, right? And that that that gets removed because of the changes in this legislation. Um one of the potential downsides in that change is that they could just evict you because they they say that they intend to sell, so they could say, right, I'm selling the flat, so you're kicked out. And that could effectively mean the same thing as section twenty-one. Because they might not actually want to sell the flat, right? So one of the rules in here is that they they can they can do that, but they would need to then wait 12 months. So they can't they can't decide to sell the flat and then go, actually, I'm gonna relist it for um rent. Um and they have to wait. They have to wait a year to do that. That's the um safety net there. So I guess you know they they they could do that if they were if they were sort of in a position where they wanted to like um jack it up a whole lot and they were willing to forego a year of uh rent, then that's possible. And then and then I guess the other downside is that like uh while all of these protections are in place, um what can you actually do about it? Because the tenant would have to like complain about it, right? They'd have to know their rights, uh they'd need to know they'd need to know to go to an employment tribunal, they'd need to know how to do that.

SPEAKER_06 57:27

They'd have to keep an eye on the house being listed for up to twelve months. Yeah and like they could also be listing the house in like on gum tree or like pa like person to person and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_10 57:41

So there's there's there's there's a lot of reasons why so I I th I think broadly a lot of these changes are good, right? They they they they they they they they improve rights for renters, um they r remove possible um exploitation that uh landlords have been able to do for a long time. But the the caveat here is that you know tenants need to be savvy about it and they need to know what their rights are. And and look, this is where tenants' unions come in. This is where organisations like London's Rent and London's Rentans London's Rentans unions um are important um because you know, having um an organisation and regular communication and um being in touch with organisers is important because this is how you find out about these sort of sorts of things. So you should totally join them. I should probably join them. You know what? I'm not a member of the I'm a renter and I live in London and I'm I'm not a member, so I'm I'm I'm gonna open up a tab. So shoot it. Open the tab right now. I'm a trade unionist as well. I know. I just I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 58:45

You've just like that's the easiest recruit you'll ever have, Dan.

SPEAKER_05 58:48

Just like you've already taught yourself into a corner.

SPEAKER_10 58:51

This is the most this is the most client journalism podcast we've ever done, because I am literally signing up right now.

SPEAKER_06 58:56

Edmund just organized himself into a union.

SPEAKER_10 59:02

I'm so good at it. I'm such a good organizer that I organise myself.

SPEAKER_06 59:05

I'm really nervous that I'm gonna forget the questions that I have about the new law. Can I ask a question now?

SPEAKER_10 59:11

Yeah, I need to let my cat out of the room. Can you ask the question? I don't need to be here for this.

SPEAKER_06 59:15

Well, you you don't you probably don't know the answer.

SPEAKER_10 59:17

No offense.

SPEAKER_06 59:18

But um I'll be So Dan, as far as you're aware, you know the the Renters Rights Act bill, whatever, does it have that thing that I think was being talked about for a bit where it's basically like a license for landlords, in it? Will it license landlords?

SPEAKER_05 59:32

Yeah, apparently they they are doing that. Apparently they're doing a thing not on May the 1st, but later on in 2026, there's an intention that there's going to be a new like national landlord database, as far as I understand.

SPEAKER_06 59:44

That would fix the problem of the thing that we just said about the 12 months, because they would know if you were renting out. So that because it gives teeth to a lot of the parts of the legislation. So that's really good.

SPEAKER_05 59:55

Yeah, 100%. And it would be such useful data for organizing, to be honest. Like give us that data, list all the landlords in one place.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:03

Yeah. Yeah. Please. We love it.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:10

Because we're just doing that. Has everyone just left?

SPEAKER_05 1:00:13

Everyone's left. Should we should be gritty now?

SPEAKER_06 1:00:17

I was gonna say, should we just get should we get into this? So I actually I genuinely think we should, because I think can't believe they've done that.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:25

Your questions are so boring!

SPEAKER_06 1:00:27

Um that's a really useful question. I think it's kind of interesting, but I'm just not even heard about it. But should we? What would you do if I just left the call?

unknown 1:00:38

I would be really excited.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:40

Well, I understand.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:42

I don't think the death will remain.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:44

Um I'm being rude today because my phone got stolen. Um, and I just managed to buy a new one and I will pick it up as soon as this finishes, which is why I keep being like, should we go on to the next thing? That's what so apologies for being rude. Can't scroll.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:08

No, it says yeah, that's horrible. Your phone got stone.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:11

I can't I can't scroll. You're so right. Like, I can't scroll. How do I go to sleep? The hands are like I've got nothing. Sometimes I stand up and I'm like, oh, where's my phone? Oh and then I I I thought, oh, I've got this spare phone, it's an iPhone 6. I didn't realize it was an iPhone 6. I was like, oh, it's probably a 10 or 12 or something. I looked at it, it's an iPhone 6. It doesn't, it's like completely obsolete. It won't break.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I imagine that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:36

It won't make call. So it keeps saying for me to sign into iCloud that I need to update it. It won't let me update it. And then I was thinking, oh, maybe it'll you'll still be able to make calls. It won't make calls. Like it won't even, it doesn't function just as the most basic phone thing. Anyway.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:52

It's truly useless.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:53

It's completely useful. I can't trade it. Like I don't I was just complaining how I'm I'm like antsy to go to the Apple Shop, Edwin.

SPEAKER_10 1:02:02

Oh yeah. Well, it isn't. We love it there. Also I know Sharine's gone to put on socks. So it's cool.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:13

In this legislation, I don't know. Oh, there's some some something we haven't mentioned, which I think is really the legislation is better than I was expecting, actually, I have to say. So they're not only section 21, but like all of the tenancies from May the 1st are just forever.

unknown 1:02:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:28

Does everyone know that?

SPEAKER_10 1:02:29

Yeah, that's one of the things I that's one of the big things I I we I I should have put in the quiz. Yeah. So that basically every tenancy agreement's going to be like a rolling contract rather than a like a 12-month thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:39

Which they become after the fixed term ends previously. Yeah. But like, you know, that's an opportunity for landlord to come back in and do some shit. Now it's like forever. Unless they have a reason or unless you want to leave. You can leave whenever you want.

unknown 1:02:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:50

You have to give two months' notice.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:52

I have another question, and I know that we'll probably go on to this. But in terms of the rolling contracts thing, does that mean so you know, say like I rented a flat last month, right? And it's a 12-month contract. I can't generally, unless there's something a stipulation in the contract, I can't leave unless my landlord agrees. Does that does it make it so that now I I could just give a month's notice?

SPEAKER_05 1:03:16

You can give two months' notice on May the 1st if you want. I leave.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:21

Um sorry, I was supposed to be somewhere at six. I'm just saying I'm not there. Um yeah, because that was like I actually don't rent at the moment, but when I was renting, that was like the m apart aside from just landlords being like awful and like just general housing issues, that for me was like always the biggest thing is that you were just like locked in and you couldn't move, you couldn't move. Like literally you couldn't move. And like I thought I thought it was very like yeah, just very restrictive. Because anything could happen.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:51

Totally.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:51

When it was COVID.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:52

You get fired from your job because of some like thing, and then you have to move city and blah blah blah, and then you're still on this contract and you have to find a subletter, and it's like, ah, this is stuck between my landlord and my boss who's fired me, and this person won't evict me, and now I'm ah yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_10 1:04:05

Yeah, well one of the other things I snuck in here uh um as well in these notes that were in it was like um about discrimination protections, like there's there's um they can't discriminate against you on the grounds of like being um like on benefits or having children as well.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:24

Or having children, which is really important, yeah. You can no longer write no DSS on an ad, which seems to be quite common. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:31

You can and they will still discriminate, but if you can prove it somehow, then the the pets is the the the uh I have a cat, right?

SPEAKER_10 1:04:40

And this is no big deal, but like every time I move into a flat I'm thinking like, right, how can I s how am I gonna sneak the cat in? Because I know I'm gonna like I'm gonna move in with the cat and then they're going to like inspect or whatever it is, and then every year they're gonna come and do something. So what I'm gonna what am I gonna do with the cat? And I'm always thinking like, okay, once a year they're gonna they're they're gonna show up and do some inspection. So I'm gonna put the litter box under the under the sink and hope they don't go in there, and then I'm gonna lock the cat in my bedroom and hope the cat doesn't come out. Which is all completely ridiculous, given that my landlord is PO box in Dubai and like you know, the um whatever the management company is, they don't care. But um I mean it's such a small thing, but um yeah, these are very, very positive changes. These are very positive changes until I fig I I I find out which uh which evil MP. It's gonna turn out that um West Streeting was actually the person behind all of these changes, and then I'm gonna have a very biggest comrade of all. Well you've known that because he's uh an unofficial member of the the committee. Um but I like uh I know I know like um obviously London Renters Union and um Acorn and Shell. and crisis were big drivers behind this um change um in the legislation. And it's been a long time coming. It's been like a decade of work for a lot of those those organisations. So it it it's a it it's a really significant change.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:14

Yeah, seriously Teresa May said she'd do it in like what was it, 2017 or something?

Revoe Blackpool

SPEAKER_10 1:06:18

So yeah, twenty twenty nineteen and then it all kind of fell through a little bit and then it's yeah it's it it's come up and um yeah um along with the Employment Rights Act, the Employment Um you know if if if um here I'm I I'm I'm about I'm about to say nice things about the Starmer regime so um buck up unsubscribe from this podcast now. But um I mean those two bits of legislation on their own are um pretty significant changes from what we've come to come come come from. They weren't raised by Starmer die No they were absolutely weren't raised by Starmer. You know what? I take all those obsessions right it what it sounded like there was I was giving Starmer credit and I wasn't giving Starmer credit. But it did sound like I was giving Starmer credit. Important caveat Starmer fan confirmed I'll be editing all of that oh no here headhead if I can get to that flipping apple shop plow on plow on it's gotta go the app there's two no there's two more bits alright uh we were gonna do okay so this there's there's two uh thing there's two thing campaigns going on currently wait have I skipped a bit scrolling up scrolling up scrolling up yeah there's there's um sorry uh I'm doing some I'm doing some chairing because um I'm gonna get some uh there's there's two like current campaigns going on in the UK that we wanted to talk about. Let's do those do do do do what's going on in Blackpool at the moment?

National Housing Demonstration

SPEAKER_06 1:07:51

So I'm a member of Acorn and there's the I like I said I owe my flat so I've decided Acorn was the one that to join. But Acorn have this like it's a national they're mobilizing nationally but it's specifically um related to Blackpool. Blackpool council are they're calling it they're regenerating this area in Blackpool called Revo I hope hope that I've pronounced that right R-E-V. And they're saying like you know these houses are derelict and they need to knock them all down and build affordable housing. The residents in Revo are like not happy about it. They don't think that that they need to be at least the majority of the homes they think they could just be refurbished and brought them up to a good standard. So they're like campaigning obviously to stop being forced out of their homes and like split communities they've got loads of kids who are like in schools really close to the the housing estate etc um so they're doing like various different things um and if you Google Revo R-E-V-O-E like Acorn or Revo like Housing Generation you can see what they're doing because they're kind of there's a phone banking thing tomorrow where they're all like calling up Blackpool council um all day so they've got like time slots where they're just like blocking the phone lines to let them know that that the residents aren't happy. But basically they've got three main demands so to stop the regeneration which sounds like counterintuitive but they want it to be paused until tenants have been like fully um consulted because they haven't been and then for homes that that they really do need to be demolished they they want the tenants to be given right to return and compensation um because comically shockingly Blackpool Labour council uh not it's not labor it is labor they've got labor on P. I'm not sure if the council's Labour anyway Blackpool council haven't promised either a right to return or any compensation for like the amount of upheaval that they'd be given that they will be under because the council have allowed the housing to be get put into such um such a poor state. So that's something that Acorn are um organising for a lot recently um so if you're a member of Acorn like it'll be really easy for you to get involved but even if you're not a member of Acorn or if you a member of another union like you might want to see what's happening um and maybe take part in the phone banking you can find like details online for it. Although phone banking might be too this current phone banking is literally on Friday which by the time you listen to this it won't be um but there's loads of stuff um email your MP if you live in Blackpool etc um and like get them to listen to the residents. So that's that's the Blackpool thing. And then Dan what's happening on the 18th?

SPEAKER_05 1:10:34

What's happening in two days, possibly in the past depending on where you do this um on the 18th of April the London Renters Union, the Greater Manchester Tenants Union and like 60 other organizations in the housing movement and beyond are taking to the streets of London in a national housing demonstration there's gonna be coaches coming from like six other cities. It's hopefully going to be one of the biggest housing demonstrations in the UK for like a decade because we are not on that on that shit. So that's this is really exciting and the the chief demands are for rent controls uh and for public housing now. Cool yeah so it's it's super exciting and it's really nice to see such a big collaboration between so many organizations of the housing movement which is quite hard to pull together so uh we're excited yeah and if if the episode is not out by the 18th will there be things happening after the demo do you have any inside gossip on what on what what the plans are well certainly I think everyone will lie down for a bit.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:31

Yeah definitely have a rest.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:34

For a few days and then there's gonna be yeah hopefully a lot of like stuff to work through a lot of like new contacts ideally you know like hopefully a wave of of new members we're hoping it's gonna get like a lot of media traction or hoping that we're gonna just like encounter a lot of people in the streets ball so that to bring people into the movement who weren't already um so yeah it's a good opportunity to talk about rent controls with anyone you may know like you know this is now is the time we've already got some wins in the bag on 1st of May and the point is to take those and run with it and try and build on on yeah the new the new rights that we have and get some more stuff in place. So rent controls is the next big campaign that the at least that the London Renters Union is focused on public housing is a longer term project that we're also reading.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:20

I looked at the weather and it's gonna be really sunny.

SPEAKER_10 1:12:22

So Soho Square is like a really nice place to be when it's sunny did you know you know okay sorry this is an unrelated sidebar that is completely unhelpful. But you know Soho Square Gardens right you know how there's that little Tudor house in the middle of it you know underneath that there's like a massive like nuclear bunker. Whoa really but okay not a nuclear bunker but like uh a lawnmower and gardening supplies bunker there's like a huge like thing okay go on whatever YouTube or whatever and look up Soho Square Gardens little Tudor house bunker underneath I always oh yeah above and beneath I always thought that's where the park keeper lived but actually the park is so small it definitely doesn't have a park keeper does it no there's a there's a massive fucking concrete structure with nothing in it directly below that. Well early and do some Urbex you know that's an option yeah it's really creepy I'm looking at the pictures yeah it is an air raid shelter yeah well yeah it's definitely a nuclear bunker for the riches to go to we don't have one here in Lewishatham that I we need a workers' nuclear bunker we absolutely do yeah and the rich they're not allowed in that's it then we win yeah yeah in Switzerland they have 1.1 bunkers per person you know that really 1.1 bunkers per person that's more bunkers than persons why yeah yeah the most neutral country has but they're worried about they're more worried about Russia than I am I I'll be honest I can't think of anything worse than like the nuclear war happen happening and then you're stuck for the next 10 years in in the Soho bunker I think it'd be vibey what you said yeah vibe it depends on whether they let the gays in well it's the this is the thing is is is to whether we're talking about is is it the gays bunker or is it the like the the the um I like the jealousy people bunker soho house do I work in advertising the Vogue office is like right it's on Soho Square so or like whatever the the company that owns Vogue now some people some people are imagining right now that there's like some a significant crossover between uh the Vogue office that's right behind it and the gays of um of the area but but what what the listening audience need to realise is that there's no there's no crossover between those are those are two entirely separate demographics um um and that the the nuclear war will be um uh absolute hell so um stay away from Soho people apart from this Sunday do come to SOHO don't worry about the nuclear war on Saturday forget about it for one day yeah I'm going I'm going I'm going to I made my friend we do an Easter roast every obviously it's not Easter anymore but we like were busy when it was Easter and I made them rearrange it so that we could go the go to the demo that's my commitment to rank control.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:26

That's comradely behaviour that's very nice very comradely should we do the uh are you getting your excuses early are you gonna be there what was that I'm going to Sicily oh that's pretty good okay that's nice so they have bunkers there though no no more for you the nuclear war's off man they got better shit going on nuclear war's over anyway we're done we moved on rentless rights act no because I did really genuinely think I was gonna go to sleep and wake up in a nuclear winner you know like last week when Trump said all that thing yeah oh my god I was like I am sick yeah because I was in between I was locked into Artemis II yeah and then I was like going to nuclear war and I was like both of these things it is like Cold War vibes like I'm living the space race and dying in a nuclear war.

SPEAKER_10 1:16:23

About five to ten years ago and that's uh I realize a long span of time but um um I I wrote a really good poem that I will never share with anyone or or read out loud on a podcast about um how in the middle of the night when someone puts like a bag of rubbish into the bin chute outside of the flat and you can hear it tumbling down you're in the middle of the night sometimes that sounds like maybe it's the end of the world and that the the like the bombs are launching or it's just someone's putting bin uh rubbish into the bin chute.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:55

Um and familiar I wish I lived somewhere with a bin chute I would have thought that was really exciting.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:59

Yeah I thought that was just an American thing. I don't know we had bin chutes. That's sick.

SPEAKER_10 1:17:03

I've had bin chutes in m several flats.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:07

I've never lived in a I've never lived in a big like a tall block of flats I don't live in a tall block of flats.

SPEAKER_10 1:17:13

I live on the third floor which is the the maximum number of floors and but there's a bin chute. It's just a location for it's just a location for passive aggressive notes to gather.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:25

Really?

SPEAKER_07 1:17:26

Oh place quirksome I will I'll be photographing them.

SPEAKER_10 1:17:29

And for summer slip and slide maybe a very stinky slip and slide um should we do the should we do the final bit?

SPEAKER_07 1:17:40

I actually don't have time for the final bit oh my god well that's why I did a noise to expediate it the motion the motion the motion the motion this is our time now the motion okay fine the the fucking motion okay everyone we have a massive motion today massive big exciting interesting all of those words and the motion today is I don't know but something about banning people go on this podcast wait for it believe that homeowners should be banned from holding trade union officer positions.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:22

So homeowners can't have positions in a trade union. Wait is it not also um that we can't have positions in um or pilot was it yeah politics in general no it was political officer when we discussed this before it was like political officer but I think it should just for the purpose of this motion it should be any position and that should be committee positions.

SPEAKER_10 1:18:43

So like when I was writing into the Google Doc I wanted to make it specifically about members of this podcast so I edited that last bit out. But actually that could actually be relevant again spicy I like the song yeah no we needed a spicy one.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:58

We've we've got a lot of homeowners yeah yeah yeah every time we have a motion it's something that we all just like it's so really common sense and a really really good thing. Yeah so I was glad well here's my thoughts yeah I am homeowner I'm a well I'm a flat owner yeah um and I also have a position in a union so so I'm against this and not only that but I'm also a union brute bureaucrat as in I am paid to work for a union I'm not I'm not I'm not like a worker in in a real worker I'm not a real worker so it's like in every level I'm like the worst part like the last thing I need to become a landlord because in every other way I am scum actually technically my boyfriend lives with me yeah and he pays half of my mortgage so like technically he's my lord yeah yeah technically technically he's a need to write from anyone technically I'm like a landlord yeah he doesn't even have a contract yeah he his his housing his shelter is dependent on staying with me very precarious in a romantic relationship yeah I think accept the power if they have it you know keep him trapped so I'm for that I'm against that and I actually have like a genuine reason to say why I'm against it would be personally inconvenient. It's personally inconvenient no but also like um guys so hard to talk about owning a flat without sounding like a dick but um like it's not inherently exploitative to own a flat or a house that comes from being a landlord so I could be wrong though right it's not inherently exploitative therefore I don't see why you should be barred from having a union position like you could say you shouldn't be in a union if you make two hundred a hundred thousand pounds I don't think that's a fair rule to be honest. No I'm saying it like to me that's the and we don't have that rule at Utah right we even have managers in our union yeah even bloody hell yeah I'm just trying to like think trying to I think you're right I think you're right like you're not I mean maybe you're exploiting a boyfriend good for you but like in general you're not it's not exploitative to have a mortgage right like in fact you're being exploited you're kind of renting capital really from like big capitalists uh and you probably most of the mortgage you're paying isn't even paying off your and I do interest and the other thing is there is like two classes of homeowners this is so like bourgeois combo barrow down borrow down but like but like you know if you own a house you own the land that the house is on if you own a flat you own the right to to lease your flat right so like a I I pay actually quite a lot of ground rent and building oh my gosh ground rent is such a scam yeah it's a scam you should own I'm not here to talk about the you should own the you should own the altitude that you live at I don't even own the altitude technically if you own a leasehold you own nothing you own the right to rent the the flat that I'm living in. And only for some years right how many years you got yeah I'm not sure how many because they are changing that to do but I think I can't remember it's like anything under a hundred you basically can't get a mortgage on it. So mine is over a hundred but it's not hugely over a hundred so like yeah but so there were yeah that not the reason I say it's like a bourgeois conversation because like there are so many privileges to owning a flat um and I like I think I would still if I wasn't lucky lucky enough to like buy a flat I would definitely be living with my parents at home because I couldn't bear what I had when I was was renting like I couldn't bear to do that again because it like really like fucked my mind quite a lot with the experiences that I had with landlords. But that's like such a position of privilege to be able to say that.

SPEAKER_10 1:23:15

Anyway anyone got an argument for I mean my argument's pretty straightforward which is that I belong to the um um uh the um uh Marxist avocado of the lyrics to the song Imagine by uh John Lennon uh which is that I just don't don't think we should own shit. Um basically is where I'm coming from here. Uh so um yeah I know I think I I I I I I think um I think you should be um I d I I don't think you should be but Marxists think you need a revolution right in order to like change the the the schema this is the economy.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:54

I don't think you should be right now is like I don't know how you get security. No ethical no ethical home ownership under capital there kind of isn't though I'm sorry to say this um but I think that yeah the the It's difficult because there isn't in the state of play right now there is like no ethical home ownership I I mean I'm kind of I'm kind of on board with that homeowners homeowners are like more they have more quote unquote privilege than like rent definitely they definitely obviously there's other things going on but like also if they have a wage and you can't pay your mortgage you're out on your ass. So it's like and you have something to show for it which a renter wouldn't which is good you have some bit of equity or something maybe not very much still great.

SPEAKER_10 1:24:42

But like there's it's the working class is there are less privileged members of the working class and like that doesn't mean we shouldn't organize with each other like we should find ways to like support each other and it's actually we want people to sign up to LRU and pay uh solidarity dues when they have less uh outgoings because they're paying a mortgage rather than rent that'd be great so uh he just organized me I actually you know what I literally have it I have the the join form I'm halfway through the join form I've been doing it when I get bored talking fantastic okay I'm I need to go oh my god you're going by tell us what you're gonna do before we go uh I'm voting in favor of the um of yeah we homeowners shouldn't be allowed to have any rights at all I I've run I've run the numbers and I think that if if all the money in the world was distributed evenly by all of the people um we'd each get exactly one million pounds each which is some it's also the the conveniently the cost of having one individual submersible submarine each for each person on the planet. And I think what we should do with that million pounds is that we should each uh uh go into the sea, give up the land, move into our own individual million pounds submersible and spend the next hundred years letting the Earth recoup um while we live under the sea in perfect harmony.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:13

I want to live on the moon that's not an option Yeah I want I want I'm on I want to be the first woman to live on the moon perfect okay maybe owner on the moon yeah I want to be the first homeowner on the moon I want to be the first mortgage owner on the moon I want to be the first unevictable tenant on the moon.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:36

Yeah well how how are you gonna get me out no bailiffs on the moon no bailiffs on the moon no imp no tribunal on the moon um so yeah I I I I I'm with Shereen here um fuck your I I'm actually voting against it I think I like can I keep my job to have some homeowners in positions of like you know committee think then like um you know managers or something like that. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_10 1:27:07

Thanks Dan this is the solid example so this puts us in an interesting position which was there were two votes to two but who won the quiz one person won the quiz was it Shereen or Dan it was Dan I think I don't think it was me.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:25

I don't know I I think it was Dan I answered the question saying oh but what about in three weeks' time because actually I've forgotten what most of the stuff is now because I've already transported myself into the future where we have more rights.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:34

Yeah so I don't think I actually got the questions right can I just say something just to see if this ways the vote both me and Shireen will have to give up our positions on the podcast.

SPEAKER_10 1:27:46

You don't have to give up your policies positions it just says that you believe oh okay oh yeah because there's no action from the motions ever.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:53

Yeah the action is that we believe it good luck um well shereen's

SPEAKER_10 1:28:00

Gone, so I guess Shereen loses the vote. Yes! She's seeded ground. I've unfortunately lost one of the votes on my side. So congratulations, landowners. You've just won.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:12

Yay! Why have I put myself in this position? I just'm a reactionary.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:19

Yeah, I'm going straight to the LIU telling them right.

SPEAKER_10 1:28:24

Thanks everyone for joining us this week. Um, we've failed you all.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:31

The revolution begins. The homeowner's revolution.